forget themselves into heroic acts. that's the real story we should take to our children. that for every despicable hater, there are 10, there are 20 americans that will say i forgot danger. i've conquered my fear. and i did what we should do as one american for another. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. good evening, i'm chris matthews with the latest on the boston marathon terror bombings. here's where things stand at this hour, 7:00 eastern. as of now, three people are dead. more than 180 wounded. more than we thought last night. some of them in critical condition. we're learning new details about the bombs now.

we now know they were contained in explosives and shrapnel packed inside a pressure cooker, a regular kitchen pressure cooker and that they were placed inside backpacks. >> among items partially recovered are pieces of black nylon which could be from a backpack and fragments of bbs and nails possibly contained in a pressure cooker device. this morning it was determined that both of the explosives were placed in a dark colored nylon bag or backpack. the bag would have been heavy because of the components believed to be in it. we are doing this methodically, carefully, yet with a sense of urgency. at this time, there are no claims of responsibility. the range of suspects and motives remains wide open. >> that's fbi special agent in charge. the fbi's also examining, watch this. this is fascinating. examining photos like this one from nbc boston affiliate whdh to see if the nylon bags might

have been placed in trash bags like that one there on the sidewalk to appear less conspicuous. look at it. look to the smile rising up to the left diagonally from that very spot where that bag was sitting. it's one of many possible leads. certainly an intriguing one the investigators are pursuing. the boy that was lost yesterday, 8-year-old martin richard, there he is. has become the face of the tragedy. of course, he died as i said yesterday. his sister and mother, by the way, are also seriously wounded right now and are right now in a hospital. today we learned the identify of another fatality, 29-year-old krystle campbell of medford, mass. she was with her best friend watching the friend's boyfriend cross the finish line at the moment she was killed in the blast. her mother broke down speaking to reporters today. >> we are heartbroken at the death of our daughter, krystle marie. she was a wonderful person. she had a heart of fwoeld. she was always smiling.

i couldn't ask for a better daughter. i can't believe this has happened. she was such a hard worker in everything she did. this doesn't make any sense. >> bless you, mrs. campbell. we also got new video from a marathon runner named jennifer tr treacy who was approaching the finish line when the first bomb went off. there's still so much we don't know. who did this? we don't know that. why? we don't know that. was it an act of domestic terrorism or foreign, we don't know. was this the group of one individual or a group of people. one thing worth remembering despite the step up police presence, despite the advanced frenticing now being used by investigators, despite all the cell phones we're learning from the videos that are out there, there's no guarantee that's who was responsible for this will be discovered any time soon. by the way, for memory's sake it

took nearly two decades for the fbi to locate and arrest the unabomber, ted kaczynski. within the last hour nbc news has confirmed a letter bomb -- not a letter. i should say a letter that tested positive for ricin or some other toxic substance was addressed to senator roger wicker of mississippi. it was intercepted before reaching the senator's office. let's begin this hour with nbc justice correspondent pete williams and former cia counterterrorism director larry johnson. two best guests we could have. pete, let's go back to that picture we just saw from whdh up there, boston affiliate of nbc. what are the experts making of the fact that it was there, that bag, whatever it is sitting there before the explosion and then in this picture taken afterwards you can see the smoke trailing up to the left there diagona diagonally? what does that tell us? >> it tells us it's something they're investigating, chris. they know, they believe very strongly that the bombs were brought to the scene in backpacks. but i think it's fair to say

they're looking at whether after they got there, they put them in these shopping bags. now, that thing next to the -- to the bag that's just on the edge of the little spot shot circle there, that is a trash receptacle. could it be? it's a question. could it be the devices were placed in these trash bags next to trash receptacles to look inconspicuous? it's something that they're -- that they're studying and something that is a possibility. they don't know. but it's certainly an interesting lead. one of many they're looking at. >> well, again, i already pointed out i'm an amateur in many of these cases. but i see a trail of fumes heading up diagonally from that bag. what else could cause a fume of smoke to be coming from that area, that bag, if it wasn't a bomb? >> well, you know, it's -- it's unclear from this picture. i think, look, it's a fair question. i just think i don't have the answers. and it's certainly something they're looking at. it could be that that was the actual seen of the blast. it might not be. it's just hard to tell from the

picture. there's conflicting things in the picture, too, that might lead you in the other direction. it's a fair question. it's certainly something they're looking at about, you know, a backpack maybe just sitting there might have attracted some attention. maybe in a garbage bag it might not have. >> what is grabbing your attention, pete, as an expert on this so far right up to date now at 7:00 eastern? >> well, you look at the composition of the devices. pressure cooker pots. they unfortunately go back decades in terms of being used all around the world. in this country and overseas. unfortunately, recipes on how to make a bomb in a pressure cooker are all over the internet. they were just last month in the latest edition of the al qaeda online magazine "inspire." but they're all over the place. also putting shrapnel in them. ball bearings, nails. that's unfortunately very common, too. the explosive material that we believe was gun powder, smokeless powder.

you look at this from a distance and you'd see, well, this is not a very cleverly made device. it's very common. but what the bomb technicians say is, yes, but, whoever built these managed to get them both to go off within 15 seconds of each other. and that suggests certainly some level of knowledge or -- or sophistication if you will. so they've taken all those pieces, chris. here's an interesting piece of data. the control tests have shown that after you blow up something like a pressure cooker bomb, the pieces are not consumed by the explosive. they're just made into thousands of pieces and spread all over the place. it is possible to recover 98%, 93% to 98% of them. that's why they've all been shipped here to the fbi crime lab, trying to keep them separate, which device they think is which, and they will try now to reassemble them, reconstruct them so they'll learn more about how they were made. you know, one unfortunate point

about this is the pieces of the bomb are, of course, partly on the sidewalk there. partly as your imagination would tell you coming out of the hospitals as well. >> hold on if you can, pete. let's go to larry johnson, former director for counterterrorism. when i look at the circuit board they seem to have been traced to, when you look at the pressure cookers, when you look at the shrapnel, the bbs, the nails, you put it all together with that picture we just saw, where are you headed in. >> well, i think it's a pretty definitive picture of where the second bomb went off. you can tell from that site that's not where the flags were. the first explosion happened close to the finish line. this one was farther down the street. that's as good a picture as you're going to get without having an actual snap of when the device detonated. if the detonation had taken place inside that trash can, that itself would have been fragmented. it's not. so it looks like the -- you know, the waves of the explosion

bounced off of it as opposed to consuming it. pete's correct about, you know, only a very high explosive with a high degree of heat would consume -- or fragment and pulverize it. this one, it may not have been, you know, gun powder. i think the jury's still out on whether it's gun powder or -- >> think about the human nature of this. pete, you understand the human quality here. look at the picture before and after. whoever -- if this was, in fact, the bomb -- it certainly was very close to that place. they saw this accumulation of people there. look at that wonderful crowd of people. what's that, 50 people or whatever right there bunched together. and that bomb was placed right in front of them so it would go right after them. >> well, and there's no question, there's no question that whoever planned and placed these bombs intended to inflict as many casualties as possible. chose the finish line area. that he knew would be crowded, he or she, whoever built this thing, knew it would be crowded.

packed it full of things to magnify the destructive potential. nails flying through the air. so, yeah, absolutely. this was -- this was an extreme amount of hate and indifference. >> can you tell from your reporting so far, pete, whether they're thinking internationally? are they thinking this goes all the way to patterns overseas used by organized terror groups? or are they thinking more individual here or more domestic terrorist if you will? >> i think i'm confident in saying that they are completely agnostic about that. they've not gone one way or the other. they have to wait to see where the forensics leads them. you know, it's interesting, chris. we can't overlook the fact that they've asked for all these pictures. that's why they gave a description of the backpack today. they were -- that's the -- so one of the investigative things they were eager to get out there, the fact that this thing seemed to be carried to the scene in black nylon bags or backpacks. they want people now to go through their pictures and see if they saw anybody carrying a heavy nylon backpack. because these bombs would have

weighed more than what probably most people had in a day pack. >> larry -- >> they were really hoping -- i was going to say, they were really hoping these pictures will give them a big break. >> larry, you said something in an earlier edition tonight on "hardball," you said they're looking for somebody who's heard a bomb blast somewhere recently. a pro, you think, would have tested that circuit tri, circuit board that was apparently used here and that setup with the two pressure cookers. >> anybody that has any rudimentary understanding of explosives understands they need to go out and test it first. particularly when you're going with a plan to set off two devices simultaneously. clearly, whether this was one person or more than one person, whoever put that device right there, they walked up to the fence. they could be pretending that they're cheering somebody on. they can set down something that looks like trash. they set it next to a trash can. nobody's going to think twice about that. why they had a trash can right there along the route, you know, i'm not going to play monday morning quarterback.

that creates -- >> how do you probe human memory and try to find if somebody -- you know, you don't remember anything. but it's somewhere in your brain, every experience you have. how do you probe -- do you remember back when? >> it will capture -- when those images get out, there are things that, you know, in the brain that capture image that will trigger. >> remember the person with the bag. >> exactly. they'll also be able to get photographs -- i'm pretty confident they will have photographs of the person that was standing there before the bag appeared and then after the bag appeared. >> pete, every time i get on amtrak from philadelphia or new york there's always a broadcast basically coming across, a public address system. it's not disturbing but it's unavoidable. if you see something, say something. this really looks like the kind of man hunt or woman hunt, i guess it's a man hunt, who knows, about trying to use all the various participants yesterday. and try to glean information from every one of them. do you remember a person carrying a heavy bag? do you remember somebody toting

something that looked like they were carrying cinder blocks it was so heavy? that sort of thing. >> yes. and do you remember somebody talking about wanting to target the boston marathon or showing interest in this particular week as a week to do something. or showing interest in explosives. yes, absolutely. you know, to show you how much they're trying to get these tips and phone calls, they had immigration customs enforcement, people at the boston airport in logan today stopping people who were leaving, saying, say, by the way, did you take any pictures at the marathon yesterday? can we get them from you before you leave town? it's really quite extraordinary. >> while i have you, pete, tell me about any development with regard to that ricin that was found in a letter addressed to mississippi senator wicker. >> right. well, ricin is a very deadly poison. it was detected in a -- in an automated test at an off-site facility. ever since the -- the anthrax attacks in congress, all the mail to government offices,

especially capitol hill, is processed and checked first at an off-site facility. this one happened to be in maryland. there was an automatic alarm that went off triggering the possibility of ricin. they did a field test there. it was positive. but i will say that these tests in the field are often give false positives. so they've taken the envelope. they've sent it to the fbi lab where they will now culture it to try to see if it really is ricin. we think that perhaps mail delivery to the hill has been stopped until they get the answer to this. ricin can be quite deadly but at the same time, there are false positives sometimes. >> sit something you would inhale that would kill you or is it something you're touching, some acidic property? what are the properties of it? what does it do to people? >> that's a good question. my memory is, perhaps larry can help me on this, but i believe that it can be dangerous if you touch it. it can be a contact poison. i don't think you have to ingest it. >> yeah. but it has to be absorbed into

the bloodstream or ingested in some form or fashion. but it's -- >> why would you put -- if you have malevolent intentions why would you put it in an envelope with a letter. >> you would hope somebody would inhale it, and by inhaling it it could kill you. >> wonderful people. hopefully that will be negative at some point, testing there. pete williams, as always, and thank you, larry johnson. coming up, putting together the pieces of the puzzle. that's what we're doing here tonight. how the fbi and law enforcement are trying to figure out who's responsible, who and what and why in the terror in boston. this is "hardball," "the place for politics." [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. governor of getting it done. you know how to dance... with a deadline. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go.

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terror at the finish line. the orange county register in california asked the question we all want answered, of course. who would do this? the irish examiner from ireland called it "marathon mayhem." obviously boston's home to a large irish-american population. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] the first look is only the beginning. ♪ ♪ this is a stunning work of technology. ♪ this is the 2013 lexus es and the first-ever es hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection. you'll have to pay five hundred bucks for your deductible. the truth? at allstate, you could pay zero. allstate gives you a hundred dollars off your deductible the day you sign up. then another hundred off every year you don't have an accident.

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this will be a worldwide investigation. we will take us wherever the evidence and leads take us. we will go to the ends of the earth to identify the subject or subjects who are responsible for this despicable crime. we will do everything we can to bring them to justice. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was fbi special agent in charge of the boston office earlier in the day talking about a worldwide investigation to bring the perpetrator or perpetrators of yesterday's bombings to justice. what exactly does that investigation look like? what's the m.o. of what they're doing right now? how did the fbi and other investigators go about piecing together the puzzles of what we've been looking at? we have two former fbi agents with us tonight to help explain.

don clark is a former fbi special agent in charge of the houston office. james cavanaugh was special agent in charge of the atf. earlier tonight you were cautioning us to be patient. hard for the news industry to be patient. tell me what the people out there looking for those particles and studying them in a laboratory and profiling as far as perhaps foreign involvement, how are they going about their work starting with yesterday? >> well, first of all, chris, you know, you've got to get organized. the one thing i think the government is doing and the law enforcement and so forth is doing is trying to take care of those people who are hurt and families of wounded and so forth. then we go into the investigate which really starts right from the beginning. and they've got to take their time and really do this the right way. examine everything and go through it like a fine toothed comb as we would say down here in texas.

and make sure that they've got all of the details. because a case like this, you're not going to start this case overnight. and i know that we've become accustomed to, let's get it done right now. well, that's not going to make it in a case like this. because there may be overseas involvement here with people who may have been involved in this case. and they've got to go through all of those aspects. and it's best to take the time and get it right even if it takes a few years longer. >> mr. cavanaugh it seems to me because of modern technology and the fact everyone on earth seems to have a cell phone with them, camera with them, recording device, we're getting a jump perhaps. when you see a picture of a bag sitting in front of a storm fence and then you see it taken directly after the explosion and you see the smoke rising diagonally, anybody watching that can see how it's moving off to the upper left, you've got a pretty interesting lead to take

a look at. how does that kind of information sort of pops on to the screen from an amateur do to the investigation? >> chris, it's a tremendous value to the investigator. there were many bombings over 3 1/2 decades. we had no picture at all. so you had this bombing, bombings, that was done in the crowded city center for the purpose of theater, terrorism theater. you had worldwide media. you had everybody with their electronic devices in the digital age. there's going to be pictures of the bomber. so when you're in command of a case like this, sad as the case is, it sure can be helpful to you to stop the next bombing. yes, it's very, very valuable. newsreel photography, cell phones, digital, all of that's going to layer on to the forensics at the scene. >> let's go with that back to mr. clark. when you look at a case like this, not for the -- i know you've spoken earlier about the need to make your case legally in court at some point. how do you go from the sort of the evidence on the ground that we're talking about now to

trying to pursue where that person went to? don't you at some point have to go with what you've got and begin to close down the tributaries where someone could have gone whether by plane overseas, perhaps somewhere in the country? don't you have to begin some kind of checking out the avenues of escape as well as the evidence on the ground? or can you do that until you have the evidence on the ground? >> well, i mean, from the moment that the incident occurs, i mean, you've got something that you can start with there. whether it's an explosion that took place or whatever the case may be. but you've got to take what you have right at the scene and from the scene is where you start to develop further information. in addition to that, you might also find you have citizens all over who may say and provide information that can help you with that development and move it forward. so it's still about doing an investigation and doing a

thorough one to get it, you know, when somebody comes in and does something like this, nobody knows who this person is, maybe they're from a foreign country or whatever the case may be. but you can identify this, but you just have to be slow with it and get through the process. and we are accustomed to getting things done overnight and it cannot happen in this case. >> mr. cavanaugh, let me ask you about the profiling. not individuals or ethnic profiles. is there a file where you can punch into a computer and say, okay, we have what looked to be a circuit board here. we have what look to be pressure cookers. we have a certain kind of ignition or detonation system here. we have a pattern of sequential bombings. can you look up in some computer and find, now, this was done over in turkey or this was done in new mexico or whatever? can you do that? >> yes, chris, atf has maintained that exact data base for the last 50 years. they can plug in just the components of the device, pressure cooker, circuit board, the type of explosive material. they can see where that was used

in many countries in the world. certainly all of the united states incidents but many in australia, the uk and across europe. partner countries have shared that data. we can get a lot of information. we can tell you some things. but with the internet the way this stuff is all over the place, somebody could make it also from somewhere on the internet. >> yeah, it could have gone viral. thank you so much. don clark, again, sir, thank you for joining us. thank you, james cavanaugh. up next, will what happened in boston yesterday change the way we go about big events in this kcountry? i've said before the terrorist wins when we shut down public access. when you can't visit your congressman when you feel like it. when you can't ride in front of the white house, blow your horn and say nixon, quit. those were the good old days. we're not having them for a while. you're watching "hardball." [ male announcer ] in your lifetime,

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welcome back to "hardball." following yesterday's bombings in boston the country's been cautiously following the see shotgun, s something, say something rule of thumb. we may be looking at new rules for security and other large public events such as parades, marathons and other big sporting events. you have to wonder whether we'll see changes of the kind that we experienced in air travel following 9/11 which nobody exactly likes. michael balboni served as deputy secretary of public safety for new york state. thank you. i keep thinking about how this city of washington has changed over the years ever since the bombing back in '71 of the capitol. used to be able to walk into the capitol, walk around looking for a job, knocking on doors. used to be able to drive past the white house and blee your car horn if you didn't like nixon or want him to quit. it was a wide open town. now you got tiger teeth everywhere. you can't drive anywhere. what's going to happen after the boston marathon bombings? >> that's always the challenge. how do you keep people free but yet protect them at the same

time? so what you realize here is that a parade, a marathon, a visit by an official like the pope, they've always been and unfortunately always will be soft targets. and what that means is that there's only so much you can do. there's always a risk associated with your attendance at these events. obviously nobody thinks it would be a risk like this. the key here is how to have a scaleable response where we can take people and we can do the layered defenses. not just about new technologies. important. not just about security personnel. important. it's also about reengaging the public in the see something, say something campaign. when i was the homeland security adviser in new york that was a program i worked with the mta on to relaunch because it gets stale after a while. chris, it's been 11 1/2 years after 9/11. >> every time something goes bad and every time somebody tries something new on the bad guys' side if you will, not to be too light hearted about it, like the

shoe bomber, everybody's got to take their shoes off. every time somebody does something wrong we lose a little free time, a little of our convenience, wasting time to put it bluntly. everybody takes their shoes off because of the the shoe bomber. >> i've always argued you need a cost benefit analysis. whatever change you have in security, whatever thing you make people do to make themselves more security, you've got to weigh against the loss of those freedoms. i think there's a lot to be done here, again, through the use of technology. it's one of the changes here. you have so much information. how do you get to that quickly so you can make the pieces of the puzzle come together quicker? >> thank you so much, michael balboni. we have joining us u.s. congressman ed marquee frimarke massachusetts. krystle campbell comes from medford, mass. >> well, that's -- that's basically the story here. it's not a story just about boston. it's a story about all of

massachusetts. this is the one day where the whole state comes together. it is an event where everyone knows one of the runners or everyone knows someone who went to see the marathon. it brings the entire state together. and she is just a perfect example of someone who was an innocent victim in this whole story, and everyone in the state is empathizing with her, her family and everyone and every one of their families that has been affected by this tragedy. >> what do you make of being a boston red sox fan like everyone else up there? it comes to you, part of your baptism up there, you become a sox fan. what do you make of them? they're going to play "sweet caroline" down at the yankees stadium tonight in honor of your city and your state. >> you know, we have a special bond with new york city because the two planes that were hijacked by mohammed ata and the other nine were hijacked just one mile from here at logan

airport. there were 150 people on those two planes. and we're about 50 yards right now from the memorial for the 150 people who died from massachusetts. and they crashed into the world trade center in new york city. so we'll always be tied together with new york. and understanding the real threat that terrorists pose. not just to boston or new york, but to everyone in our country. and so it's a beautiful tribute the yankees are going to play, because it shows that more than yankees fans or red sox fans, we're all americans first. >> so what is it about boston, mr. markey? you and i are friends. i just think -- i keep thinking about the boston thing and how this is going to affect it. that coziness, that togetherness that's us against the world almost feeling. the new england people and boston people. you know, you're smiling because you know that feeling. what's this going to do to it? this going to make you more united, more tough about facing down the rest of the world?

>> next year we'll have the single largest crowd come to the marathon in its history. people are walking all around downtown boston this afternoon, this evening. there's going to be a vigil right across the street for the families of the victims. that's going to begin in another half an hour. so bostonians are coming together. it's a family. we feel it as a unit. and it's really all of massachusetts and all of new england as well. and so i'm -- you know, i'm feeling part of this family. i think everyone is and we're all trying to stay together in order to provide the support for the families that are most affected. >> well, you're a front-runner right now in the race for the senate seat that was held by ted kennedy. you're going to have a primary, that special election very soon now. what went into your decision? maybe it's just obviously human sentiment to decide to suspend your politics in this race? >> well, before being a

democrat, before being a red sox fan, we're -- we're all from the bay state. and so i think steve lynch and i and the three republican candidates, we all know that that's the most important thing that we have to do. yesterday, today, and for as many days as it takes to allow the healing to really begin. and so i'm not campaigning, and i think that's the right message to be sending. my television commercials are off the air. and i think that's the way it should be. we should just be thinking about what happened and the families that were affected. >> how do you think the coordination is going on between governor deval patrick and the president? i see that the president -- i just learned it tonight. he's going to be coming up to the cathedral of the holy cross in boston this thursday for the memorial service. and the whole sort of spiritual aspect to be honored, this event. >> well, i talked to secretary napolitano today. i talked to the governor today.

and i think the president's arrival just reinforces how much we're really an american family here. and that an attack anywhere is an attack everywhere. and so it's going to mean the world to the state that the governor and the president will be here and speaking for all of us on thursday. and i think that will really be a very important healing moment for our state. because we need it right now. but at the same time, everyone is bonding together in order to make sure that we are able to make it through this together. >> thank you very much, congressman ed markey. a very good guy. thanks for coming on tonight at this time. up next, the latest on the victims. three dead now. one more than we thought last night. and 180 injured now. and some very seriously. and this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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welcome back. as information continues to come in about the bombing at yesterday's boston marathon, lo local hospitals and law enforcement are keeping us up to date on how many people were injured and continue to receive treatment as of now. here's what we know. three people were killed yesterday and more than 180 were injured. many more than we thought. earlier i spoke with dr. william mackie, chief of surge at tufts medical center. dr. mackie, thank you for joining us. i was looking yesterday. the first part of this tragedy that struck me was the number of hospitals up in the boston area all with so many -- so many patients now in serious problems, serious threat to their lives. what was it like yesterday? what's the situation in your hospital at tufts? >> it was extremely hectic right

from the get-go. the event occurred about 2:50. by 3:30 or a little before we had victims romming in. we got about nine people from the scene within about a ten-minute period. eight of them had pretty serious injuries. four of them immediately limb threatening injuries. they were triaged through our system quickly. and within about 30 minutes, four of them were in the operating room here. >> were they amputations in your case? >> no. we had no -- no fatalities and no amputations at least so far. we had some very badically damaged limbs, however. all the injuries were from the knee to the ankle. all of the major injuries, blast injuries. and several people with a lot of bone damage, open fractures, nerve damage, arterial damage. and a lot of muscle damage. so although they won't -- most likely won't lose their limbs, there is going to be a lot of

rehabilitation, prolonged rehabilitation involved. >> what about infection? i know from my brief covering of the blasts from the ieds, this is an ied apparently, over in afghanistan and iraq, the soldiers over there, when they get hit with one of these blasts it just throws so much bad stuff, crap if you will, into their system. because it comes from everywhere in the area. is infection a big challenge here for these patients? >> yes, absolutely. that's one of the reasons we wanted to get many of these patients up to the operating room as quickly as possible. so under sterile conditions we could wash out these wounds, remove the foreign debris, the dirt, the grime, the street debris in the wounds, as well as the shrapnel. and, you know, i think with washing them out, the dead -- debriding the dead tissue, removing all of the debris, there's a good chance they can avoid serious infection. yes, infection would be a major risk with these patients. >> tell me about the burn victims. was there any burns involved? i'm not that familiar what happens with a blast. were there burns?

or is it all immediate wounds? they're not going to get worse. like, burns tend to get worse. >> yes, we had several burns. none of them were major burns. we had a few people with hand burns. probably put up their hands to protect themselves reflexively and got some flash burns on the hands. we had some people with burns on their backs that weren't that severe. so i don't think the burns that we received are going to be really a threat to these patients. >> how about traumatic hearing loss? that kind of thing? blindness? anything like that come of this? >> no blindness. we had four patients that were initially suspected of having ruptured eardrums from the blast. those patients all underwent scans last night and i think two of them ended up not having ruptured eardrums, and the other two did. they will recover their hearing over time. >> how good a shock trauma operation was it yesterday? were you -- just watching it, i'm so impressed by what looks

on television to be such a wonderfully humane and professional response from the first responders. how did you -- who figured out which hospitals to send which victims to? how was that wonderfully -- well, it looked to me wonderfully coordinated? >> well, i think you'd have to ask the directors of the boston emergency medical services. i don't know that there was any rhyme or reason to who, which patients were sent to which hospitals. i think they tried to distribute the patients relatively evenly among the major trauma centers here in boston. and, you know, we're all fairly close to the scene, so distance was not a major issue. tufts medical center is within a little less than a mile from the finish line. boston medical center, mass general, the bris brigham and womens, all within a mile to a mile and a half of the finish line. really not a huge difference in distance. i don't think there was any

triage of patients at the scene based on severity of injury or anything else. all of those hospitals are level one trauma centers, all capable of accepting the most seriously injured patients. >> so all of your patients right now, just to finish up, are not in critical condition, they're in stable or better? >> our patients are stable, thank goodness. they seem to be recovering. we should be able to discharge one or two of the patients tomorrow. and a few more will be in the hospital. but, you know, discharge from the hospital at this point is really the start of their recovery. a lot of rehabilitation. maybe some later reconstructive surgery is going to be required. >> dr. mackey, great to have you on in this terrible time. what a professional job you folks are all doing. thanks for taking the time to tell the people what's going on. >> i'm so impressed by these people. up next, they call boston the hub of the universe. it is to those people living up there. when we come back, we're going to find out how the hub is coping today, and this is "hardball."

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and still pay the mid-size price. this is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro. we're back with dan. he describes yesterday's horror as quote, one of our best days is is forever tainted. 117-year-old boston marathon will never be the same and there goes another piece of our freedom and another sacred institution. dan joins me now, along with brent o conner, who was feet away from the explosion. dan, your feelings about what this means to boston, the marathon, to this country. >> patriots day in boston, it's a very unique thing. nobody goes to work. nobody goes to school. the red sox play a game at 11:00 in the morning. it's a boston only event.

it's always been sacred and a very inclusive event. the people finishing that race, that's every man at the finish line. they're not elite runners. this hit hard and hit at home. >> you put the crepe up there, but my sense is next year, you'll have just as many entries. do you think it's going to have a permanent mar? do you think we're going to have a permanent bad aspect to something as great at the marathon? >> people are going to remember this. it will have an association with the marathon, but the marathon, i think the mayor said it, bigger and better than ever. a lot of people are going to go out and run. they're not going to let this take away a great boston institution. >> let's talk about the rivalry, when somebody sold babe ruth to the yankees. i think he had about five 20-game years there. a guy forced to play outfield

and in the fifth, play pitcher, then go back and play the outfield four or five days in a row. you lost him. the sense of the yankee rivalry tonight when they play the diamondbac diamondbacks, the same team they played in the series after 9/11. they're going to play sweet caroline. >> it's a nice thing for the yanks to do. at a time like this, you can't get into the boston new york thing. this is a time to come together. everybody in boston was way into the yankees when the towers fell. >> let me bring in brandon. what's been going through your head and heart ever since? >> it's definitely compelling. you know, i feel really bad. i've never even experienced a boston marathon before. this was my first one. i lived in new york for about 12 years. i moved back.

and this is my first marathon and it's really, really sad and really compelling. but what i can say is you know, bostonians are resilient and we fight and we'll come out of this. and you know, it's been really tough. it brings me back to the day of september 11th. and when i lived in new york on september 11th, it was really, really tough. >> when you woke up in the middle of the night tonight, did you remember anything special at the day? was it the explosion itself that you remember? >> it was actually martin richards from dor chester. i thought about september 11th, how many kids have grown up without their parents. this little boy came here to experience the marathon and he'll never be able to run in

it. i don't understand how as a country, how we can let this happen. that's what makes me really, really sad and brings tears to my eyes. >> thank you so much for that thought and feeling. >> back to dan. what is boston? i mean, i went to the holy cross and you try to get worcester. i think i know boston a little bit. what is it? i think i know san francisco, but what's the distinct quality? from christmas to may, i say there ain't going to be any sun, so get together. >> it's about neighborhoods. very tribal, very old fashioned. the fact we love traditions, we've had this event for 117 years, we'll continue to have it. we'll be resilient through this. >> i like the fact you've got the t. most people get together. where everybody gets on that little old fashioned what do you call it? it's not actually a subway.

>> they're trolly cars, chris, you know that. >> i'm giving you the color aspect. >> boston. the sense of coming back over these last 30 or 40 years. i've always told people about that. tip, teddy kennedy. it's a comeback city from the days of shoes. you've got a whole new country. >> absolutely, they're not going to let this event take away from the great event of the boston marathon. this is always going to be remembered. >> got to go. dan, thank you and brent, we'll be right back. book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back

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♪ let me finish with this. i'm a huge fan of this country's cities. new york, boston, city, philly, washington, miami, new orleans, chicago, san francisco. and boston, like the others, has a feel to it. if san francisco smells like coffee, boston is clam chowder on a cold, gray day. when christmas comes, say good-bye to the sun. it will be back around exam time. there's a tremendous sense of unity in that part of the country. maybe it comes from spending so much time of